Kat Says: “I Spoke to Thys About the Pros and Cons of Creative Freedom in his Post-Noisia Career”
The celebrated producer-DJ recently worked with an 18-piece jazz ensemble, but his heart is forever in the club.
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Hey Friends,
If you’re reading this in the United States, I hope you enjoyed your Independence Day break. I know I made the most of a self-prescribed journey into the dark abyss, and I’m happy to report, lessons were learned!
Whether I was eluding corporate responsibilities on the beach, or chatting about the ironic terror of celebrating my country’s “freedom” while simultaneously feeling powerless to stop its embarrassing decline, I did a whole lot of deep thinking on just what “independence” actually means.
Uncomfy macro-scale realities aside, I am extremely grateful for the independence this newsletter and the rest of Super Kat World affords me. Having a space where I can explore my own artistic, narrative and journalistic voice makes each day worth living, and hearing from you about the inner dialogues and memories this newsletter inspires in your own minds makes my world feel a little less isolated :) We’re in this together, y’all!
Here’s a pic of me rockin’ my new SKW hat. You, too, can look this cool, if you buy some Super Kat World merch :)
Of course, everything has its pros and cons. Giving yourself free rein to follow every exciting and motivating thought that comes your way is radically creative, but it also leads to a slightly erratic headspace. There are about five plots to follow at any given time, and it takes a certain maddening dedication to pull that off.
Turns out that’s a big issue for Thijs de Vlieger, too, a Dutch producer and DJ you would know better by the name of Thys—or by his work with the now-defunct, extremely influential drum’n’bass trio Noisia.
“It’s like every half year, every four months or something, I find myself obsessed with something else,” Thys told me over Zoom. “I can be obsessed about a sound and not feel like making it, but if [my desire to explore and desire to create a sound] intersect, I'm super productive.”
As one-third of Noisia, those eccentric musical impulses were honed into sounds his bandmates Nik Roos and Martijn van Sonderen could also live with. Noisia was, by definition, a collaboration, and a highly successful one at that.
The trio is often touted as one of the most inventive and technically skilled production outfits in modern electronic music. They are famously credited with teaching Skrillex much of what he knows about sound design—which, uh, is a lot!
It would be unfair to simply categorize Noisia as a d’n’b group, because their 20-year career incorporated all kinds of style into three studio albums, a collection of EPs, a supergroup with Foreign Beggars called I Am Legion, a few compilations, the official soundtrack to the Devil May Cry video game and more.
Noisia’s announcement that it would officially disband in 2020 was enough to make headlines even amid the COVID crisis, and after releasing its final LP Closer and taking one more tour around the world, the trio dissolved in the summer of 2022.
The band cited “creative differences” as its motivation to break up. I first spoke to Thys in 2018 when he was working solo on a soundtrack for an experimental ballet, and it was pretty apparent to me even then that he was ready to try some new things.
Further Reading: NOISIA’s Thys Adds Evil Beats to Contemporary Dance ‘Sleeping Beauty Dreams’: Listen (Billboard Dance, 2018)
“It’s a bit easier to also just let NOISIA be what it is, because there is another venture that is a little more unpredictable with a bit more self-development,” he told me in our Billboard interview. “I’m learning a lot faster, because there is more to learn here than what is left to learn in where we’re established … There’s very basic rules, but when you don’t know them yet or you’ve never applied them, they’re very exciting, and when you’ve done them for over decades, you’re like OK, I’m ready for another challenge.”
This is Thys, in what I presume is a cornfield. Photo courtesy of Thys.
Fast forward to today, and Thys is free to obsess and explore any damn sound he wants. A few months ago, he flew to Switzerland to work with an 18-piece jazz ensemble, and today, he’s promoting a six-track EP on Fool’s Gold that defies categorization.
There’s no need to compromise with his two friends who may or may not like French Touch as much as he does, which is cool in the fact that it unleashes his talents to test every creative edge his mind can fathom—but again, unfettered “freedom” can present a new set of problems.
A month ago, Thys dropped the aforementioned six-track EP. It’s called Eigenwise, which is itself a play on a Dutch term that roughly means “stubborn.” The A-Trak collaboration “Right Here (In My Mind)” caught my ear immediately. Machinedrum and Holly, Nikki Nair and others are featured on the EP, and each track bursts with its own unique sonic character.
Eigenwise is as funky as it is heavy, as experimental as it is brutal. I got the feeling it was Thys free to do whatever he wanted, working with a team of incredibly talented friends across a gamut of subgenres, and I wanted to see what he had to say about it—so I did!
After some light Twitter stalking, we connected via email, and Thys and I spoke via Zoom a couple weeks ago. Below, I’ve shared the majority of that conversation, presented with some light editing for length and clarity.
Here we talk about the pros and cons of doing whatever the fuck you want, life after Noisia, the rehabilitation of his inner know-it-all, the merits of a world-changing bassline, A-Trak’s courage to back artists across genres, the stockpile of French Touch-inspired bangers Thys is sitting on, and his deep desire to reconnect with DJing and the gritty club scene.
ENJOY <3
Photo courtesy of Thys.
I spoke to you in 2018 for Billboard when you were doing the Sleeping Beauty Dreams ballet. I reread that this morning, and there was an overall theme of you pushing yourself and do something very different from what you had perfected working with Noisia. Is there a similar drive behind this EP, or even behind your solo work as a whole?
Right now, I’m a bit more in the middle. I’m completely autonomous, so I don't have to fight for my own new thing. I'm always chasing white rabbits. I'm super obsessed about one sound, and then two years later, completely somewhere else. It [was] very difficult for the other two [members of Noisia] to deal with someone that always wants something different. It takes a while to get [music] done, and by the time this EP was out, I was already so far into my next thing that it's really hard to keep focused.
For me, this EP and last year's Shoulder to Shoulder EPs are a real nod to club music, and that's definitely closer to Noisia. Some records on there could have been Noisia records, maybe toward the weird side of Noisia. I don't long back to drum’n’bass audiences, but I do miss being in the club and being at these shared music experiences. I see it as a kind of shaman function, [being] the DJ. You feel the vibe and determine where everyone needs to go next. I really like that role, and I was that in Noisia, and I'm that when I'm DJing as Thys, too, so I see more similarities than differences.
It must be a boon to have a really wide net to cast when you're in that role, though.
It’s like every half year, every four months or something, I find myself obsessed with something else. I can be obsessed about a sound and not feel like making it, but if [my desire to explore and desire to create a sound] intersect, I'm super productive, then I can finish all that stuff later. I'm like, “I'm gonna make a project of this thing that I was obsessed about eight months ago,” and I can get back in there. It's not like it's gone forever, and the longer I live now, the more I stop swimming against the current … and don't try to be like, “No, I have to do this because this is what people want, or “this is what I had planned.” It's like, “No, this comes and goes, and I just come and go with it.”
That’s a great position to be in. Whether because of your professional rank or because of your age, congratulations on feeling comfortable and confident enough to listen to those impulses.
It definitely feels like a privilege. Every time I feel like working, it's still like a video game or a holiday. I'm doing this for fun, and then when I’m inspired, the laborious part of the work does not feel like labor at all, like the boring detail work. I can really feel why I'm doing this part of the work, but when I'm not following that, it can be quite hard to to do some parts of it that are not your favorite, when you don't really intuitively understand why on an emotional level.
I can relate to that.
I think everyone can. I'm privileged in that I get to relentlessly follow whatever is obsessing me.
What were you obsessing over when you began the concepts on Eigenwise? Am I saying it right?
It's a word that doesn't exist, so you can definitely pronounce it wrong, because there is no right. In Dutch, there's a word Eigen-wijs, which means like, “you know everything better,” but it's mostly used for children, not for grown-ups.
You wrote on Instagram that you would get called that during your schoolboy days.
I thought I knew better than everybody. I was one of the smartest kids in the room, but some smart kids were a bit more quiet. They didn't have such a big mouth, and yeah, I did. I was a smart ass, and I would interrupt people and say, “no, that's not true. It's blah, blah.” So, a bit annoying. I'm trying to tone it down now, trying to get consent before I give my opinion.
I ask a lot of questions, which people find really annoying. It feels like I'm fact-checking them, but it’s because I've mapped my world, and I want to put it against theirs and see if there are any conflicts. But it sounds to them like I don't believe them. I'm questioning them, and I think I know better, and I still don't know how to do this.
I have this intuitive drive to figure out if I'm right or wrong, and if there's something to learn or if people can maybe learn from something I know. But it feels like I'm not taking them seriously or overriding them, or mansplaining. My brain just wants to understand and explain things, and then by that figure out if I'm right, because I don't know if I'm right. I just feel like I'm right all the time.
Were you being eigen-wijs with your collaborators on this EP?
The collection wasn't conceptual. It was just tunes that I liked, that A-Trak also liked, and then we found a common thread in them. None of these tracks are very formulaic. They set their own rules. Maybe “Soundboy” with Logan is the one that most fits into [a genre], this new garage appreciation and revival of UK jungle MCs, especially with the Skrillex, Fred Again.. Flodan track becoming huge. The MC is being reinstalled into the rave, and that's a good thing. They built the city, and then they got taken for granted for a while, but they're a vital part of the history, and I hope also of the future.
The one with A-Trak is typical French Touch filtered house, but it's 140 BPM, so it's too fast for everyone's set, except for mine. I'm making a lot of too-fast French house. All the tunes on this EP are a bit weird. I don't think they fit a lot of people's sets, but so that's definitely eigen-wijs about them. Within themselves, they make sense, and then to the rest of the world, they're a bit like, “wow, really making your own rules, aren't you?”
You might as well. It's an incredible lineup of collaborators. You've got some very cool friends.
Yeah, I do. I’m really happy with the lineup on the record.
I really like “Versatile” too, which is seemingly a solo track. No collaborators are listed.
I had to do one solo for sure, and A-Trak really wanted the 160 stuff. That's basically why he approached me in the beginning, because he's into this faster stuff.
I love it. It's very B-boy. It makes me wish I could break dance.
I think it really fits the versatility of the label as well. Fool's Gold has released some real hip hop, like Run The Jewels and stuff, and then all this electronic music and dance stuff. It's a very wide-range label. I think this hip-hoppy jungle song fits quite nicely as another part of the many fringes of this label.
Are there stories behind any of the songs that stick out? I'm sure that each one is very special in your own heart.
The first track is also the one that started it, with Chloe Robinson and DJ ADHD. We were already working on that collab, but it was stalled for four years. I played a demo version to A-Trak, he liked it, and I asked them “would you want to put it out with Fool's Gold?” They said yes, and then it was like, “Cool. Now I have a reason to finish it.” We completely overhauled it, made it a completely different track. They'd already sped it up from my original version, and then I took that and made a third thing out of it, which became really energetic and percussive.
The last track is with Nikki Nair. It’s mixed with just way too much distortion on everything, and that is completely on purpose. It's just a big middle finger like, “We don't care, we distort everything.” The one with A-Trak, I wanted a French house song with him. Like, he co-wrote “Barbara Streisand.”
A-Trak is also all over the map as a DJ and production talent in his own right. He certainly doesn't seem to care about what he's “supposed to do.”
For a B-boy to get into French house must have been a bit like, “What? But you're a hip hop DJ, you can't do that.” It's the same with Craze and drum’n’bass, and the South American music that he's also into, mixing it all.
As a creative person, I think that's really necessary, although some people get intimidated by making those left turns. Did you have to build that courage, or was being different always in your blood?
It is very natural to me, but sometimes I struggle with the consequences. It’s harder to build a career when you keep changing everything every couple years, and when there’s no clear direction in your work, it's a bit harder to make a name.
With Noisia, the limitation was always that it’s three different persons. You have this [venn] diagram where the circles overlap. That was always Noisia: What we share. All the things we didn't share, we at first didn't do, or we would just do them for fun on our computers but not try to release. Later, I started actively looking for things outside of Noisia so that I could do them according to my rules, but I think being tied down to them was definitely a good lesson for me.
If I were to grow into another creative relationship where I make compromises but it's working out for me, I'd be quite happy to. Especially now that I'm confidently doing my own thing. I learned to make music with those guys—together—and doing it by myself is fun in the act of doing it, but being a musician by myself and not having that 24/7 soundboard like, “I made this. What do you think? How can I make it better?” That’s still weird to me, in a way.
Because I'm now making stuff that they don't necessarily understand, it's a bit pointless to ask them—not that they don't understand, but it's not what they love. They come at it with a different energy. When we were still all three obsessed about drum’n’bass, it wasn't such a big leap to to make compromises. It was pretty small compromises, and everyone would be happy with the wider array of sounds that you could get that way.
I would do it again. I do miss it. It’s why I also love doing projects like this jazz project I did in Switzerland, or last year, I did a contemporary dance score. I love working for film because you really get sucked into a project. We work on it day-in and day-out. I talk to the director or music director. It's so collaborative, and it's so intense; 24/7 in my head, and all my work goes with these persons. That feels really normal to me. It’s really good to be really obsessed with someone else and not just by myself.
What are you currently obsessing with? What are you listening to, what are you enjoying, and what is driving your your mind?
I'm making very fast, like 145 BPM disco house.
That sounds great.
I've always liked people that are still doing it like, A-Trak, and I'm a big fan of Salute. I got to hear their new album. It's fantastic.
As I was preparing to go to Basel [for the jazz ensemble project], I did some research like, “What kind of jazzy stuff do I like? Maybe we'll do some funk.” Then I was like, “Oh yeah, funk!” I wanted to make a Spotify playlist of newer bands with really good basslines, because if the bassline is good, or if the drummer is good enough and the bassline is sounding right and funky, then I don't care if I hate the singer.
So I did this jazz thing, the bassline thing came out of that, and now I want to make club music, because what we made for the jazz concert was really for an 18-piece jazz orchestra. I couldn't really do club music, but now I want to do funky club music. I wrote like 12 or 13 songs already. Some of them are finished. Some of them are super early and maybe need to be scrapped. But I wrote a lot, and although I haven't even finished it yet, I'm starting to want to go to the next thing.
That's when I like to get things signed, and start talking deadlines with somebody else that understands it, that will be my sounding board. Discipline is really hard for me. I struggle with it in everything. I really need to understand “Why now?” That's the main thing. “Why not in a week?” With things that I'm obsessed about, inspired about, the answer is: because it's fun. Finishing a song that I don't feel like finishing because it needs to be finished? For me that’s very weird, unless I'm talking to someone that is excited about it, and I can live through their experience. That excites me again, and then I want to work on it.
Well, to be clear, now that you’ve told me you’ve made these songs, I really want to hear them!
If you go back to Noisia's first album, there's definitely hints. “Red Heat.” That's the ninth track on our first album. We also have a song with Teebee called “Shower for an Hour” that's a drum’n’bass tempo, kind of French house stuff.
All the way in the beginning, we had an altar ego for the three of us. We called ourselves Hustle Athletics. We did a song called “Lekker” that got a recent remix that did really well. But the B-side of that track is another French house that I made called “Feel For You.” So I have been doing this kind of French thing for a long time, but now I have a lot of material, and I want to put it all together and do something with it.
Okay, well, I'm crossing my fingers.
I mean, it'll happen. The material is way too good not to do something with it.
I also want to DJ more, and I don't know if people realize. Sometimes I speak to people who are like,
“I thought you didn't want to do that anymore.” In September, I'm coming to America. I don't think anything is announced, but it's really nice lineups, West Coast and East Coast. I'm sure I can say that, and I'm releasing club music. I definitely want it to be known that I want to come back to America more, because I really like where the scene went in the last couple of years. Right now, I just want to do club music.
There’s actually quite a bit that I cut from this Q&A just so it wouldn’t completely overwhelm you. If you might be interested in the whole chat, lmk. Maybe I can feature the audio to paid subscribers :)
Alsoooo…
Kat Calls Season 2 is officially streaming on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and wherever you might listen to podcasts 🙂
I spent my weekend catching up on Kat Calls uploads. The cast of folks who came through on season two was truly humbling. Madeon, Skream, Glenjamn, Wavedash, Nala, TT The Artist, Sam Gellaitry, Vindata, Elohim, Rinzen and tons of other friends are all among the chats now available on DSPs. Of course, they still exist as watchable videos on YouTube, so have at ‘em!
Coming Up
Kat Calls: David Sinopoli
Yes! We’re making up for the rescheduled chat with my buddy David Sinopoli, one of the main creators behind III Points music festival here in Miami as well as the famous Club Space in downtown. We went to college together, and I’ve watched him slowly take over the whole south Florida scene. He’s never held himself back in our interviews, always down to drop some truth bombs and such, and his taste in music is truly immaculate.
Join us Thursday, 7 pm ET 4 pm PT: at youtube.com/@superkatworld
Absolutely Necessary
(This is the part where I share songs that are so good, they’re absolutely necessary to listen to. That’s it. That’s the bar.)
I made two Spotify playlists for this section that you can follow: one weekly playlist updated with just the new stuff every week, and one cumulative playlist that will host every song I pick ever (until Spotify tells me it’s full). Check them out! I made them for you—and me, but mostly you.
Here are this week’s five highlights:
SOPHIE - “Reason Why” Feat. Kim Petras & BC Kingdom
Hot off the heels of Charli XCX's smash hit LP 'Brat,' new sounds from the queen of hyperpop club classics emerged from the ether. The celebrated producer SOPHIE died tragically and suddenly in 2021, but not before she absolutley changed the sound of the world. Her work continues to be felt and heard in releases from Flume, AG Cook, Charli and more, and now she's set to release a posthumous self-titled album, featuring works like this one that were mostly finished. Final touches were added by her brother and frequent collaborator, in an attempt to share more of Sophie's genius with the world in as close to true a manner as possible. Sophie the album is out Sept. 27. RIP, Queen.
Nero - “Too Many Questions”
Another heroic trio of the Uk electronic music scene, Nero has long been one of my favorite groups for its conceptual approach and complex but soulful productions. "Too Many Questions" is so perfectly funky, it begs relistening. It's a single from Nero's forthcoming third album Into The Unknown, which actually closes out an ongoing sonic narrative that started with its first LP, Welcome to Reality.
Amtrac - “VTEC”
Big shocker, I’m including a tune from Amtrac’s latest five-song EP. He just doesn’t miss. It’s not my fault he’s so good! This is the middle track from the One More Hour EP, which the producer himself describes this way on YouTube:
“I can recall when I was younger, always wanting just ‘One More Hour’ to skateboard. The artwork is a photo from the first time I ever visited a skatepark on vacation in Florida. That moment really sparked my obsession, soon followed by a deep appreciation for skate video soundtracks - ‘This Is Skateboarding’ from Emerica instantly comes to mind. My early years of making music we’re centered around things to listen to while I skated, catchy loops that went on forever - All in all this EP is best suited for 4 wheels… & the club.”
Calcou - “Birdsong”
I’m really vibing with the introspective beats this week, and I hope you are, too. This tune from Berlin-based producer Calcou hits heavy in the liminal space feels. It’s like a lazy Sunday morning, or like that moment you’re trying to fall asleep after raving for 20 hours. It's a single from his recently released debut LP, Murmation, in case you wanna hear more.
“I have tried to bring in many musical influences that have defined me as a human being and connect them as if in a swarm,” he says, “Field Recordings, Re-Sampling, Acoustic elements, Jazz, Synthesziers and everything in between. I really hope the listener can feel the love for detail I put into creating this album but also the beauty of nature that inspired it.”
Manatee Commune - “Mosaic”
More introverted beats for your soft, sad soul. Manatee Commune is a producer from the pacific northwest, although shout/out the very Florida name. We love to see it. This tune is just so sweet and soft and beautiful, then it hits you with the melancholy upbeat. I had to share it. It's a single from a forthcoming LP called Simultaneity, set for release on July 19.
Okay friends! That does it for this week. I hope to see you at Kat Calls on Thursday, and if you buy some merch, definitely do share a pic with your girl ;) Say hi on the Discord maybes, idk. Do what feels right.
Until next time, see you on the Internet!
Thanks for tuning into my newsletter. Listen to the playlists on Spotify. One is updated weekly with all the songs from each edition. The other is cumulative with all the updates ever!
love it that you did this interview with Thys :)